HOME....Odd trip....a "detailed" account will follow in the next couple of episodes, a "rehash" as it were I couldnt dictate to Mandie on the road because I was driving like a madman....and when I wasnt I was to tired for more than a 1 or 2 liner on Class Racer.
We pulled out of Indy car wasnt running right, I think weve got a flaky injector (or 2) intermittenly low EGTs on 2 cylinders, changing plugs and coils had no effect, rotating injectors 1 cylinder did...it moved...the one single damm spare I didnt have on hand.....otherwise it would have gotten them....OR its possible some wiring got wet, I had it out and it started to come down yesterday.....
Met some awesome people....truly amazed people actually read or follow this....this blog was meant as my own record to print out later for and with the history of the car build, and its become something else.
I was floored at 4 DP's and I cant tell how many CJ's at Indy way cool.....Got to meet a bunch of people Ive only talked to on the phone and that was so very cool FINALLY....
Norwalk is probably next the car should be good by end of next week and instead of hitting Atlanta well probably just hit Norwalk since well be doing our testing there (45min away) and well.....I know the track, area, and nearest restrooms well.
5.7 has "its moments" we ran 11.5 at F weight on a tune that was the Old 6.1 tune. Well tear down tommorow and monday and see whats going on. And shell go back together and well well be good.....
Got enough "bits" to put another 6.1 together complete , and enough other "bits" for another 5.7 less pistons.
The old man is going to build one, he said first one to get done goes in next......Games on Old Man....Game On....
Mandie was AMAZING the whole trip, words cannot describe what she did for us and how much more pleasant she made the trip. BUT......Shell be Baaaaaaaaaaccccccccccckkkkkkkkk :)
Next step is to put her behind the wheel of something....Mandie dosent do "halfway" and I want to see if shes god mad skills behind a wheel.....so were gonna give that a shot to hopefully, she game.
She was incredible, if you saw her working, loading unloading, wrenching in the pits at Indy you know that......shes as sharp as they come.
Shes also a hell of an orgainzer (something if you have seen us in action know we are NOT) and well she said "Your gonna miss me tommorow" and looking around the shop and the cleanup from the tropical storm leading to our departure....yeah....MAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE Come Backkkkkkkkkkkkkkk........
Tommorow Ill start a "recap" with pics kinda day or two at a time....a "serial" if you will of the last 2 weeks.
Saturday, April 24, 2010
Friday, April 23, 2010
Wow 10 Days....
Without a post....LOTS of Pics, heres the short version
Went to Atlanta, Arrived late to Vegas, Made it to Indy its raining.
Dont like the way the car is running.
That will change.
Waiting for Rain to Clear at Indy........
Now that our Grand Tour of the Country and all our "Practicing Getting to the Races" as Irv Johns put it (I thought that was hilarious...really) well.....we now know that we can get to the track :)
Mandie is a killer when it comes to being usefull and helpful and funny and not unpleasant company thats for sure.
Hoping the engine is good. Well see...........................
Cheers
Chris
Went to Atlanta, Arrived late to Vegas, Made it to Indy its raining.
Dont like the way the car is running.
That will change.
Waiting for Rain to Clear at Indy........
Now that our Grand Tour of the Country and all our "Practicing Getting to the Races" as Irv Johns put it (I thought that was hilarious...really) well.....we now know that we can get to the track :)
Mandie is a killer when it comes to being usefull and helpful and funny and not unpleasant company thats for sure.
Hoping the engine is good. Well see...........................
Cheers
Chris
Tuesday, April 13, 2010
Drag Pak #24 Engine Failure CONCLUSION
After a LOT of discussion and a lot of back and forth.
The Rod bolts suck...simple.
We had thought we had seen an oil pressure drop, with the bolts stretching that would have caused it.
My suggestion ? The ARP 8740 that are supplied with the Scat Rods are listed for STREET duty.
Buy something better like and L19 Anything has to be better.
The stretch in these when all removed was quite unreal .030 in some cases .... really....
Bolts progressivley stretched and broke.
Simple, painful but simple.
The Rod bolts suck...simple.
We had thought we had seen an oil pressure drop, with the bolts stretching that would have caused it.
My suggestion ? The ARP 8740 that are supplied with the Scat Rods are listed for STREET duty.
Buy something better like and L19 Anything has to be better.
The stretch in these when all removed was quite unreal .030 in some cases .... really....
Bolts progressivley stretched and broke.
Simple, painful but simple.
Saturday, April 3, 2010
April 3rd DP #24 Engine failure
Ok, so I feel compelled to post this #1 for many other DP Owners out there, Ma Mopar, and Gary Stanton as well as several component vendors while I may never be a fan of I would have bet just about anything their issues caused ours.
These were not the cases.
The circumstances of the failure were as follows.
The car came out of the water at 8000 rpm give or take. My issue for lack of a burnout limiter.
It freespun, no load.
Rods exited the pan.
We were having issues with oil pressure or so we may have thought, we are still unsure about the sender / gauge combo.
We had a 3 quart accumulator in place and functioning correctly.
We took apart #24 DOA Engine #2 Here is what we found.
#3 Smacked an Exhaust valve HARD
Minor/Minimal scoring to the journal on #3 (dono about #4 will have to cut that one off)
Some bluing to #3 rod. top half
NO Breakage of Rod, or cap, both intact.
Bolts both broke at mating surface.
#4 Rod Z'd from the impact of the #3 Rod and Wristpin exiting the engine in castaspophic fasion. (a very intersting sight, it looks like it was made that way) and 100% intact. just well z'd to the wrong journal.
The rest of the engine internals took massive damage as it looks like (as in we cant find and there is a lot of metal unaccounted for the wrist pin of #3) shattered or was scattered around everywhere.
It appears the bolts sheared on #3 the assmebly broke free of the crank, on a subseqent rotation, (from the side scar on the crank) the crank smacked the rod from the side, and disloged the pin from the bottom of the piston.
All rest of the engine journals and bearings looked as would be expected on an engine that had full oil flow and only 6 or 7 passes, excellent to just like they should, no galling, no scoring, no oddities of any sort, Id run em again in an instant....that nice.
No damage (visible) to cam other than a bent pin. Billet Gundrilled cam, being sent back to manufacturer to be checked for microcracks/straighness and suitablity to be run again.
Someone who was present called before I tore the heads off and said "Ive thought about it an I think you smacked that valve hard and things went bad from there" I thought about it and I agreed maybe...
After much thought and discussion here is OUR , Me and the Old Mans conculsion. With someones initial and correct call (I would mention their name but I didnt ask them if I could)
The smack on #3 at 8000 (or where ever it happened below that) set things in motion as was suggested.
Cam backlash is where I come up, we are not using a stock chain but a double roller, and there is much more play in it than a "fresh" setup, the follower/tensioner design is adequate but was designed for street use, even in the aftermarket setup we are using, when the bottom freespun it backlasked on a very heavy (and ours is 4 lbs lighter than stock) cam, that allowed the tensioner (which its design would allow) to collapse from a ) to a ! this would allow the cam to retard by at least 6 degrees and the exhaust valve made contact. We have a very significant duration and VERY agressive ramp rates.
Clay testing on the engine prior showed adequate not even "marginal" on both in and ex at the advance I was running (4 deg) So...
The springs have a killer rate and pressure and weve had no issues nor has anyone else with them over 8500....
So this conlcusion seems to be the appropriate one.
The Rods (scat) I am actually VERY suprised that any I beam forged rod made in China took....its staggering. They are mutilated but intact not broken.
The workmanship of the assembly in the case of our bottom end, no issues clearances etc all looked to be spot on.
The bolts, well they failed but under the circumstances, I dont know that any wouldnt have.
The timing set and I wont name the vendor is the ONLY item I can look to.....there is a significant lack of availablity and choices for these engines many others with different combos dont have to deal with , that will change but for right now well....were "stuck" short of a custom setup. As well not even the timing set itself but the multi plate ) shaped tesioner that could collpse to a full flat condition, this is both the original and aftermarket design.
These are the things we saw, these are the things we did and these are the conclusions we have come to.
I post them here so as to alleviate any "finger pointing" or "uncertainty"
Some of which I may have caused by what I have said and not said.
I thought the rod gave, and well, I was wrong, it and the cap are intact. bolts broke and the rest was haging through the pan.
And I thought as did my father we had oiling issues, or the potential for them, this was incorrect as well from the clear evidence shown in the engine.
Pictures to follow as we upload them after I get on the road to Houston
Ill put Mandie in Charge of that
The reason it took so long ? Well , weve been busier than you can imagine re-rigging the trailer, broken truck, new engines, and business. So....here it it.....sorry it took so long, I know of one engine guy who has been loving our failures (the engine guy many are sending their DP motors too)
Cheers all
Have a safe and happy easter......
These were not the cases.
The circumstances of the failure were as follows.
The car came out of the water at 8000 rpm give or take. My issue for lack of a burnout limiter.
It freespun, no load.
Rods exited the pan.
We were having issues with oil pressure or so we may have thought, we are still unsure about the sender / gauge combo.
We had a 3 quart accumulator in place and functioning correctly.
We took apart #24 DOA Engine #2 Here is what we found.
#3 Smacked an Exhaust valve HARD
Minor/Minimal scoring to the journal on #3 (dono about #4 will have to cut that one off)
Some bluing to #3 rod. top half
NO Breakage of Rod, or cap, both intact.
Bolts both broke at mating surface.
#4 Rod Z'd from the impact of the #3 Rod and Wristpin exiting the engine in castaspophic fasion. (a very intersting sight, it looks like it was made that way) and 100% intact. just well z'd to the wrong journal.
The rest of the engine internals took massive damage as it looks like (as in we cant find and there is a lot of metal unaccounted for the wrist pin of #3) shattered or was scattered around everywhere.
It appears the bolts sheared on #3 the assmebly broke free of the crank, on a subseqent rotation, (from the side scar on the crank) the crank smacked the rod from the side, and disloged the pin from the bottom of the piston.
All rest of the engine journals and bearings looked as would be expected on an engine that had full oil flow and only 6 or 7 passes, excellent to just like they should, no galling, no scoring, no oddities of any sort, Id run em again in an instant....that nice.
No damage (visible) to cam other than a bent pin. Billet Gundrilled cam, being sent back to manufacturer to be checked for microcracks/straighness and suitablity to be run again.
Someone who was present called before I tore the heads off and said "Ive thought about it an I think you smacked that valve hard and things went bad from there" I thought about it and I agreed maybe...
After much thought and discussion here is OUR , Me and the Old Mans conculsion. With someones initial and correct call (I would mention their name but I didnt ask them if I could)
The smack on #3 at 8000 (or where ever it happened below that) set things in motion as was suggested.
Cam backlash is where I come up, we are not using a stock chain but a double roller, and there is much more play in it than a "fresh" setup, the follower/tensioner design is adequate but was designed for street use, even in the aftermarket setup we are using, when the bottom freespun it backlasked on a very heavy (and ours is 4 lbs lighter than stock) cam, that allowed the tensioner (which its design would allow) to collapse from a ) to a ! this would allow the cam to retard by at least 6 degrees and the exhaust valve made contact. We have a very significant duration and VERY agressive ramp rates.
Clay testing on the engine prior showed adequate not even "marginal" on both in and ex at the advance I was running (4 deg) So...
The springs have a killer rate and pressure and weve had no issues nor has anyone else with them over 8500....
So this conlcusion seems to be the appropriate one.
The Rods (scat) I am actually VERY suprised that any I beam forged rod made in China took....its staggering. They are mutilated but intact not broken.
The workmanship of the assembly in the case of our bottom end, no issues clearances etc all looked to be spot on.
The bolts, well they failed but under the circumstances, I dont know that any wouldnt have.
The timing set and I wont name the vendor is the ONLY item I can look to.....there is a significant lack of availablity and choices for these engines many others with different combos dont have to deal with , that will change but for right now well....were "stuck" short of a custom setup. As well not even the timing set itself but the multi plate ) shaped tesioner that could collpse to a full flat condition, this is both the original and aftermarket design.
These are the things we saw, these are the things we did and these are the conclusions we have come to.
I post them here so as to alleviate any "finger pointing" or "uncertainty"
Some of which I may have caused by what I have said and not said.
I thought the rod gave, and well, I was wrong, it and the cap are intact. bolts broke and the rest was haging through the pan.
And I thought as did my father we had oiling issues, or the potential for them, this was incorrect as well from the clear evidence shown in the engine.
Pictures to follow as we upload them after I get on the road to Houston
Ill put Mandie in Charge of that
The reason it took so long ? Well , weve been busier than you can imagine re-rigging the trailer, broken truck, new engines, and business. So....here it it.....sorry it took so long, I know of one engine guy who has been loving our failures (the engine guy many are sending their DP motors too)
Cheers all
Have a safe and happy easter......
Thursday, April 1, 2010
April 1st 2010 Were calling it QUITS
Well, my health concerns and the stupid cash outlay have ended New Hemi Racing.
The Challenger is currently up for Sale on RacingJunk and all other items will be sold on Ebay
Nah, I cant believe I forgot April 1st...
Just too busy, so crazy busy. We have just been tied up, taking care of the 1000's of items of a Cross Country Solo trip for me to Houston to be joined by my Father, just well....there is a LOT......a real lot. And well I forgot some simple things LIKE SPARK PLUGS ! Rush delivery on those that will delay my departure till Monday but I had been thinking of postponing it till then. (Monday)
But well, LOTS to do this weekend, including a new paint job on the Golf Cart.....wow....and some tires for it. And well......Lets see.....New tires and rims for the Trailer (the Original DP Shipping tires I think are rated right will have to look) And rims :) Spark plugs tear rear end out and inspect, install our Nuclear line cap to keep line noise out, noone is even gonna figure out what the hell the thing is.
And more, gonna be light here on posting till Houston, but well.....just busy no time to post, busier than we have been, Family things with Easter, family travel....just busy.
That part is all true.
Quitting racing, yeah that wont happen
The Challenger is currently up for Sale on RacingJunk and all other items will be sold on Ebay
Nah, I cant believe I forgot April 1st...
Just too busy, so crazy busy. We have just been tied up, taking care of the 1000's of items of a Cross Country Solo trip for me to Houston to be joined by my Father, just well....there is a LOT......a real lot. And well I forgot some simple things LIKE SPARK PLUGS ! Rush delivery on those that will delay my departure till Monday but I had been thinking of postponing it till then. (Monday)
But well, LOTS to do this weekend, including a new paint job on the Golf Cart.....wow....and some tires for it. And well......Lets see.....New tires and rims for the Trailer (the Original DP Shipping tires I think are rated right will have to look) And rims :) Spark plugs tear rear end out and inspect, install our Nuclear line cap to keep line noise out, noone is even gonna figure out what the hell the thing is.
And more, gonna be light here on posting till Houston, but well.....just busy no time to post, busier than we have been, Family things with Easter, family travel....just busy.
That part is all true.
Quitting racing, yeah that wont happen
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